[Jason Vines]

The technology to craft and present games advances every year. With this forward march, games look better, non-player characters are smarter, and in-game physics become more accurate. Now, games have an aura of unreality, but in the near future, games will look and feel like the real world. Given this, I ask, will games eventually become the primary mode of entertainment?

Already, games can immerse players in worlds far more than films or TV shows can. They can also sweep up players in far grander stories. This makes games the most enjoyable multimedia entertainment in existence, IMO. Doing exciting things yourself in an epic world is preferable to watching characters on a screen do them. So I have more fun playing Knights of the Old Republic than watching the Star Wars movies on which it's based; I like playing World War II-based Call of Duty 2 more than viewing similarly-themed Saving Private Ryan. Etc., etc.

(Speaking of Knights of the Old Republic, it embodies a hell of a plot twist that gives "I am your father!" from the movies a run for its money.)

When games look so realistic you might as well be watching a video, then wouldn't their immersion and interactivity entice the general public to adopt them as their main entertainment? And then, wouldn't games finally receive the respect movies and TV programs garner, if not more? (I'll tell you, I'm sick of the snobbery people who don't play games display toward the art form.)

The only obstacles I see to this are:

• The exclusivity of game-making to coders. Artists would need greater access to the realm. How this could be accomplished, I don't know. Maybe someone could release game-making tools on the level of Macromedia Dreamweaver or Adobe Photoshop? Or at least Lightwave.
  
• The cost of buying computers powerful enough to run the latest games. This restricts games to the rich and the dedicated. As long as that's the case, games can never penetrate culture the way TV shows and movies do.

This post has been edited by Jason Vines: 05 January 2006 - 12:15 PM

[Cymro]

I certainly think so. But I think the developers should focus more on building good stories and giving games good physics and interactivity than on graphics. The success of the GTA and Half Life titles are evidence of this.

[-Oz-]

I know the visual is very important for games these days, but if a game's graphics aren't super-duper then I won't fret. I prefer excellent gameplay to excellent looks. If the coders/designers would spend more time working on content rather than how 3D they can render ingame characters, I think many gamers would be more happy.

[Jason Vines]

-Oz-, on Jan 5 2006, 05:22 PM, said:

I know the visual is very important for games these days, but if a game's graphics aren't super-duper then I won't fret. I prefer excellent gameplay to excellent looks. If the coders/designers would spend more time working on content rather than how 3D they can render ingame characters, I think many gamers would be more happy.

Great graphics and excellent gameplay aren't mutually exclusive. Half-Life 2 and Call of Duty 2, for two examples, demonstrate that. And these games are more immersive and thrilling for their more realistic visuals and physics.

Let's also not forget, if a game engine renders graphics and portrays physics well, multiple developers license it and forge as much content as they can with it.

In any event, if the game industry is to gain widespread acceptance, games need to look like real life, not like cartoons. (Well, while we're on the subject of increasing games' cultural penetration, software developers need to concentrate more on finishing games before they ship instead of using customers as unpaid beta testers, and then issuing patches for all the bugs players find.)

[Bondo]

Yes, most likely. But using KOTOR as an example, videogames also have limitations. Namely, you can't just have a good story, which KOTOR has, but it also needs good gameplay, which is where KOTOR comes up wanting (the Classes are not different enough, which limits character customization). I also gravitate towards open ended games, particularly strategy games, because they allow you to play the game you want to. (obviously, KOTOR has this as well, but it is limited). You are not locked into one narrative, (as with movies) or one narritive with a few "choose your adventure" points along the way (as with some games).

So the trick to videogames... almost all videogames, I think, is to give players the tools to play the way they want to. So in a Star Wars game, if would like an Ithorian Jedi, I should be able to create one. The other obvious trick to this is balance. You have to balance all the choices so they are all viable. Some developers would rather cut corners in balancing and give you a fewer choices. And that doesn't work so well.

That said, games can be bit too complex (Morrowind). And I don't like games that hide information from the players (Black and White).

And I'd never give up on good movies.

[Jason Vines]

Bondo, on Jan 6 2006, 01:58 AM, said:

Yes, most likely. But using KOTOR as an example, videogames also have limitations. Namely, you can't just have a good story, which KOTOR has, but it also needs good gameplay, which is where KOTOR comes up wanting (the Classes are not different enough, which limits character customization).

I found the classes, even the Jedi ones, to be quite different. You can't end the game as a smuggler or a bounty hunter, true; you must be one kind of Jedi by the finale. But that suits the story. A schmuck with a blaster rifle and a jetpack isn't going to defeat the Dark Lord of the Sith and his legions of Force- and lightsaber-wielding minions.

Bondo said:

So the trick to videogames... almost all videogames, I think, is to give players the tools to play the way they want to. So in a Star Wars game, if would like an Ithorian Jedi, I should be able to create one.

I agree. Let players exercise their own imaginations as much as possible. That's more fun than being locked into one character and playing style.

Bondo said:

The other obvious trick to this is balance. You have to balance all the choices so they are all viable. Some developers would rather cut corners in balancing and give you a fewer choices. And that doesn't work so well.

I somewhat agree. But, keep in mind, we don't want games to require 10 years to make. They'd be dated the instant they appear on the shelves. Plus, their developers would likely burn out after toiling away on a game that long.

Bondo said:

And I'd never give up on good movies.

Neither would I. If I heard about another KOTOR installment and another Star Wars movie, though, I'd anticipate the former more by far.

[Cymro]

I'd like to see games that come out like TV,with several (relatively) short installments of a series at a low price, released fairly often, with a new story for each "episode".

[Bondo]

Jason Vines, on Jan 6 2006, 03:49 PM, said:

I found the classes, even the Jedi ones, to be quite different.

Yeah, I usually play a Jedi Consular (sometimes with two sabers!) , but IIRC there isn't a lot of difference between that and the attack class (And then there is the Sentinel in between). I can still cut things with my saber, I just get more force powers and no jumping ability. I also usually start off as a scout to get the head upgrade. But I inevitably wind up with the

Spoiler

+5 Wisdom thing around my neck.

I haven't played KOTOR 2 and I understand they focused on the Jedi classes more.

But aside from that, I guess what I was expecting was that I could be an original trilogy Yoda - super powerful and very light on the lightsaber (or perhaps even not need one, and subdue everyone with my mind control powers).

Neverwinter Nights has the opposite problem: they give you lots of class and customization options. I like that, but I also start obsessing over what choices to make. And some of this is my problem with RPGs in general. THey are supposed to make an immersive environment, with character interaction and choices. But all to often you can see under the hood.

What KOTOR does exceptionally well though is character interaction with your party.

Jason Vines said:

I somewhat agree. But, keep in mind, we don't want games to require 10 years to make. They'd be dated the instant they appear on the shelves. Plus, their developers would likely burn out after toiling away on a game that long.

I agree with that too. But when available, my KOTOR party always includes the other Jedi (particularly Juhani. I like the other Consular too), but I'm also partial to Mission's skill set. I can't find any use for Zaalbar and Canderous. The game gives me no reason to use them, unless it forces me to use them. If I need a long range weapon, I have Mission or Carth. The Jedi have the short range weapons. And I dislike the droids (no healing).

On the other hand, Blizzard consistently comes the closest to delivering a complete quality package IMO. And their games take an age and a half to come out, and almost always look dated (particularly Diablo 2 -- in many ways, it looks worse than the first one did).

And I agree: I'd definately play KOTOR over watching another movie.

[Bondo]

Cymro, on Jan 6 2006, 04:49 PM, said:

I'd like to see games that come out like TV,with several (relatively) short installments of a series at a low price, released fairly often, with a new story for each "episode".

Yeah. That's a good idea. It also limits your expenditures in case you don't like the game. I think some PS2 game (.hack or something) even used your data from the old game so you could continue your character.

For price, I also like the discount bin.

I'm also insanely addicted to "Collapse" and some flower matching game in the Hypersyllogistic Arcade. Thank you Jason.

[Jason Vines]

Bondo said:

Yeah, I usually play a Jedi Consular (sometimes with two sabers!) , but IIRC there isn't a lot of difference between that and the attack class (And then there is the Sentinel in between). I can still cut things with my saber, I just get more force powers and no jumping ability. I also usually start off as a scout to get the head upgrade.

I suppose whether you notice significant differences depends on how you play. If your goal is to create a powerful character, the differences become crucial. If you're a Consular, you don't have the health of other classes, and you don't get as many physical abilities. That weakens your lightsaber skills, and it erodes your ability to survive fights if you're depending on your lightsaber. You'll be scored on more than a drunk promiscuous co-ed.

Bondo said:

I haven't played KOTOR 2 and I understand they focused on the Jedi classes more.

Yes. You start out as a Jedi (Sentinel, Guardian, or Consular), and then, later in the game, you can choose a Jedi or a Sith prestige class. Also, if you have enough influence with many of your party's characters, you can persuade them to become fellow Jedi or Sith, depending on your alignment.

Bondo said:

But aside from that, I guess what I was expecting was that I could be an original trilogy Yoda - super powerful and very light on the lightsaber (or perhaps even not need one, and subdue everyone with my mind control powers).

You can do that. You just have to know how to build your attributes, select your Force powers, and equip your characters. Your weapons of choice could be Force Stasis and Force Wave, and you could ward off the attacks of Sith with Force Resistance.

[Bondo]

As usually happens, I start talking about a game and then I get interested in playing it again. So I've gotten a lot of KotORing in over the last few days.

Jason Vines, on Jan 11 2006, 10:06 AM, said:

That weakens your lightsaber skills, and it erodes your ability to survive fights if you're depending on your lightsaber. You'll be scored on more than a drunk promiscuous co-ed.

Yup. My first try in the last few days was a scoundrel. It took 40 minutes (mind you, this is reloading the game constantly right before the fight starts) to finally get my lvl 3 scoundrel (I hoard upgrades for the Jedi) past Brejik. I usually died right as the game loaded too, as I'd turn to kill Redros, and Brejik would shoot me in the back. Drunk promiscuous co-ed indeed.

It was shortly after I got to the next planet that I decided I really wanted to be a scout/guardian with insanely high wisdom. It was a shame too, since that game had a glitch that duplicated Zaalbar's Bowcaster (complete with upgrades!).

Jason Vines said:

Yes. You start out as a Jedi (Sentinel, Guardian, or Consular), and then, later in the game, you can choose a Jedi or a Sith prestige class. Also, if you have enough influence with many of your party's characters, you can persuade them to become fellow Jedi or Sith, depending on your alignment.

That sounds cool, and just what I'm looking for. IIRC the advertisements had a Twi'lek Jedi. I was looking forward to that.

Jason Vines said:

You can do that. You just have to know how to build your attributes, select your Force powers, and equip your characters. Your weapons of choice could be Force Stasis and Force Wave, and you could ward off the attacks of Sith with Force Resistance.

Yup. It's fun to stun everyone on screen with my Consular and then watch Mission rack up critical hits or simply kill all of them with the saber.